PDA

View Full Version : Coaching...?


FTS
04-12-2011, 02:53 PM
Credit where it is due: Trakcar is wondering and since he is actually at the airport, I am just relaying his message :)

FTS
04-12-2011, 07:45 PM
Although, I picked the first choice, IMHO there is much room for improvement for a solo driver before hiring a coach, even just by themselves.

I would recommend the following before hiring a coach, although a coach would not hurt of course.

The very first thing a solo driver, or even before being solo, should do is to acquire a data logger. These cheap devices can give invaluable information if the driver takes the time to look at the data. I am not talking going to the extent of "analyzing" the data, which requires quite a bit of experience and comparative data sets. But just looking at basic information of brake points, lateral Gs, GG plots, sector times, looking at differences from lap to lap, or session to session. I consider data loggers the gold mine.

One of the first things a coach will do is also install a data logger and look at data with the student, give pointers not only based on data, but his/her interpretation of the data based on experience. Before getting to that point, it is important for a DE driver, solo or otherwise, to learn to look at data and not be intimidated by the squiggly lines.

The second thing that a solo driver should do is ride in instructor cars, invite to ride with him, and have them drive his/her car to note the differences, and what is possible.

Once these techniques do not return enough for the time/effort investment, then I'd say it is time for a coach.

PistolPete
04-14-2011, 07:31 AM
Maybe I've missed this somewhere but do you have a post listing the data logging equipment that you use or have good experiences with?

TRAKCAR
04-14-2011, 08:06 AM
I have Traqmate and hate it.
VBox I hear good things
Racekeepier I hear good things.
Data loggers might deserve it's own topic perhaps?

FTS
04-14-2011, 08:18 AM
I am not sure what the issues Peter has been experiencing were with Traqmate specifically, but at the end, besides the electronics, all of them pretty much do the same thing. The real differentiator is the software.

I use RacePak G2X. I find it very well built in terms of its electronics and packaging, and cheaper than most. Its software is not the most intuitive and has some minor bugs. I haven't used Traqmate, but I have seen its software and I think it is more intuitive and better than Racepak's DataLink. I also have seen Motec, I think it has the most professional software, not to mention the hardware and its worth its price certainly. But at the end, for DE work, something simple is more attractive IMHO.

But yes, data loggers probably deserve their own thread.

mooty
04-21-2011, 09:38 PM
sorry but ALL data system are POS. totally not intuitive.
i am waiting for apple to make a REAL data system.

jenk12m
04-21-2011, 09:54 PM
Hello fellas glad to be a part of this group. I'm always up for some coaching no matter how much experience you have

bman
04-22-2011, 12:26 PM
Got some very good coaching this week at David Murry's VIR event. Most helpful was the lunch time track walk with Aaron Povoledo. Great insight into car positioning and attitude in Nascar, T4, Southbend, Oak Tree and Hog Pen. Later Aaron hot lapped my car for 3 laps. Seeing him hitting the marks he described over lunch was very enlightening. He's a great guy who's very passionate and generous in sharing his knowledge.

Unfortunately I could only attend 1 day and didn't get enough time to try new things. My times were decent but the same as I ran the month prior. However, I think it was because I was overly focused on hitting new marks. With practice I am guessing I will see some improvement based on what I learned.

mdrums
04-22-2011, 10:56 PM
sorry but ALL data system are POS. totally not intuitive.
i am waiting for apple to make a REAL data system.

+1 from the systems I've seen. However if you were to buy a new system today which one would you pick?

mooty
04-22-2011, 11:42 PM
if you are asking me, i wont buy one unless i have a tech and computer genius with me to interpret the data. i have had traqmate, motec and aim xl pista

1. software is hard to understand
2. down loads need a wire???? we are in bluetooth, wire less world.
3. only run on pc.... pc's are ugly. if you want a real computer, mac is it. it looks good.
4. assuming you get the thing to work, you need someone to interpret it. know mdrum is 5mph faster than me at T5 is uselss info to me. i am only interested in know how to pick up that 5mph. i only care about the result. how to get there is NOT my conern, that's my coach and computer analyst's job

sorry, can't help you select a system. but if someone has something that's fail proof and mooty proof, pls let me know.

i am all for coaching. espeicaly one who can interpret data and use that to get me faster.
not sure i am making sense here.
but the bottom line is i dont care how a coach or data system get me faster, just get me faster.

jenk12m
04-23-2011, 12:16 AM
Wish I could've made that David Murray event

I'm sure something will come out soon that we will all like to be able to review data and help one another go faster

mdrums
04-23-2011, 09:47 AM
For you Sebring guys I HIGHLY suggest you hire Chris Hall for the day. Super great guy, fun to learn fun, Pro ALMS driver. Everyone I know that has had him as a coach learned a lot, went faster and safer and had a blast.

FTS
04-23-2011, 10:13 AM
+1 from the systems I've seen. However if you were to buy a new system today which one would you pick?
As you know, there are many of them out there ranging in price and functionality. For DE purposes, exclusion of race car development and track setup, all of them will do pretty much the same thing. So, selecting one is a matter of the software, how easy it is to use, interpret and flexible it is. This perception differs from person to person. At the end, most DE drivers or even club racers, don't want to "waste" time looking at squiggly lines to figure out how to improve lap times, and I think it is totally understandable.

So, although I cannot say much at this time, we are working on something to ease this burden; it will take a little bit more time, but I believe we can find a solution for our members ;)

if you are asking me, i wont buy one unless i have a tech and computer genius with me to interpret the data. i have had traqmate, motec and aim xl pista

1. software is hard to understand
2. down loads need a wire???? we are in bluetooth, wire less world.
3. only run on pc.... pc's are ugly. if you want a real computer, mac is it. it looks good.
4. assuming you get the thing to work, you need someone to interpret it. know mdrum is 5mph faster than me at T5 is uselss info to me. i am only interested in know how to pick up that 5mph. i only care about the result. how to get there is NOT my conern, that's my coach and computer analyst's job

sorry, can't help you select a system. but if someone has something that's fail proof and mooty proof, pls let me know.

i am all for coaching. espeicaly one who can interpret data and use that to get me faster.
not sure i am making sense here.
but the bottom line is i dont care how a coach or data system get me faster, just get me faster.

I totally understand your perspective. Although Traqmate's software is the easiest to use IMHO, it is still difficult to see areas of attention and making sense of the data without training. As I mention above, John I am working on something that even you will like I believe.

mdrums
04-23-2011, 11:32 PM
Mooty that's right....I forgot the systems only run on a PC. I'm a Mac guy too but I guess you could get Parallels and Windows and run any of these systems on a Mac. I've never used Parallels so I'm not sure this would work out.

FTS
04-24-2011, 12:18 AM
I run VMWare on the Macs, pretty good, but just like any Windows app, it drains the battery within a very short period of time. Love the Mac!

SH || NC
04-24-2011, 08:09 AM
I think coaching is paramount. I'm just getting started with data analysis, with Dell's help here too of course. There are a couple of courses offered locally for data interpretation, at VIR and such, which I plan to attend at some point.

Right now, its just being able to overlay 1 data set (mine) with another (Dell's) and review the deltas; very basic stuff; get on the brakes sooner, later, harder, softer; get on the throttle sooner, later, harder, softer, etc.

Right after safety, coaching IMO is the best value. Sure, most of us like to indulge in some simple customization or tinkering of our GT cars, which is fine, but I would resist burning money on gear just to go faster.

More often than not, you're just muddying up the waters when trying to understand what's happening with the car.

Even in my C4S, Dell did some incredible driving, and it really opened my eyes to the equation, talent/experience > go fast bits/gear.

mooty
04-25-2011, 10:05 PM
fatih,
excellent.
do keep in mind however, i do know how to turn on my TV. but i cannot get it to work with my DVR or record or play. i have to call my wife to set it up. so when she's on call in the hospital, we leave the TV on all day so when i get home, i will not page her while she's in the OR.

i am eating rice cold right now. b/c i can't figure out my microwave and i dont want to turn the range on fearing i burn down the whole city. wife on call. i think she wont be happy if i have to beep her out the OR again.

FTS
04-25-2011, 10:34 PM
No wonder you order your cars as strippers, you cannot figure out how to turn on the A/C probably :D

Larry Herman
05-12-2011, 08:40 AM
I highly recommend coaching for everyone on a periodic basis. Those using data aquisition systems (we use Racepak G2X & SIS cameras) can really illuminate both on a verbal and also on a quantitative basis what can be improved.

For the drivers who just become solo, it is important to continue your training, as I have seen many in my 28 years who just pound around the track, re-inforcing bad habits until they are so ingrained that correcting them is quite difficult. Even for you seasoned, highly competent drivers, it is important to have someone suggest new ideas and push you out of your comfort zone so that you can continue to improve.

Coaching with data also can help answer some of those questions like "is 2nd gear or 3rd gear faster in this corner" as well. Coaching exists in every sport, but I am always surprised at how some in this sport are so resistant to it.

24Chromium
05-16-2011, 01:25 PM
I have Traqmate and hate it.

Peter, I'm curious as to why you continue to bash Traqmate. As you know, I've got it installed in Gisele. It's certainly got lots of short comings, but... I invested a lot of time and money and I'm learning to live with it. And, I have to say, all my reliability problems have been pilot error. These things aren't intuitive!

Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd rather discuss it that way.

24Chromium
05-16-2011, 01:28 PM
One other thing I want to chime in on here... I wholly agree with the technique of having a "coach" drive your car and use the data logger to capture that session in order to compare a pure apples to apples comparision (same car, tires, track, conditions, etc.) of you vs: them. This is a great tool available to you when you've got these fancy systems!

TRAKCAR
05-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Peter, I'm curious as to why you continue to bash Traqmate. As you know, I've got it installed in Gisele. It's certainly got lots of short comings, but... I invested a lot of time and money and I'm learning to live with it. And, I have to say, all my reliability problems have been pilot error. These things aren't intuitive!

Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd rather discuss it that way.

No problem, let's discuss it here as a fair warning for others.
It seems that it is something all the time.
Last weekend my data only recorded for exactly 10 mins and 13 secs, each session?
Why? Nobody can tell you. I will find out tomorrow what is on my memory card this time.
I have not downloaded my data from last weekend, but I am already worried what I will find this time.

In general:
- Software is very counter intuative.
- Some stuff does not work. Example you include a video, hit OK, video disapears. You repeat it works. You just have to know the glitch and work around it.
- Their support forum sucks.
- Their manual sucks.

Counter intuative software with bad manuals and bad support forum = frustration.

Last year I bought HD camera and HD module. It would not work. I call and they explain to me that HD will work with software released next month. Tell me before you sell me the hardware please.

If you turn the car off without "ending" the session you have no data.

Too much money and time invested to buy something else now because they are all improving so rapidly. Except trackqmate. version 1.00 of the software is now more then a year old.<!-- / message -->

SH || NC
05-16-2011, 03:11 PM
Peter, IMO, what good is it if you can't count on it? Rip it all out, sell it, and start over. The longer you wait, the less it will be worth. My experience with AiM has been a little finicky, but their support (Jordan in CA ) is top shelf.

TRAKCAR
05-16-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm getting there...

24Chromium
05-16-2011, 04:26 PM
Peter, thanks for sharing your experience with Traqmate. I'm certainly no fan boy! But, I've not had any of the problems you describe. Mine is only 5 months old, so I'll keep my eyes open. TC Design (who helped me with the installation) did tell me that they stopped supporting/selling TM due to permanent data loss, which sounds similar to what you describe.

My frustration is mainly with getting video overlayed with the dashboard. I've been meaning to post up a video with the dash overlay - since you had said that no TM installation is "real" until the user can post such a video - however, my sessions are too long for YouTubes 15 min max. Worse, I can't open the TM video to edit it with any of the s/w tools I have. Now that sucks! Anyone have success editing the TM video files?

TRAKCAR
05-16-2011, 04:56 PM
The only way I figured out how to do it:
Write video: make sure you save it as an .AVI
When done open it in Windows movie maker.
You can edit it pretty easy even add text, cut it in pieces etc.

When you save in movie maker it takes forever, a 15 minute film will take hours to save.
Don't know why. Then upload in windows movie maker file.

So if you overlay only say 4 laps at the time you save a lot of time by merging them seperately instead of merging a session and then cut it in pieces, but if you do, you can add text. Like so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPf0BJ3D9tQ

You can see why I wanted a normal HD camera instead of the crappy Chasecam they sold me first ;-)

My house is without internet, so I will likely be offline till tomorrow.

mooty
05-18-2011, 10:33 PM
Peter, IMO, what good is it if you can't count on it? Rip it all out, sell it, and start over. The longer you wait, the less it will be worth. My experience with AiM has been a little finicky, but their support (Jordan in CA ) is top shelf.

i have two chase cam and traqmate.
after 1 month, i decided i would be happier if i take them out, lay them on the driveway and drive off them.... i heard CRUNCH.... i was very happy. whoa....

i then had AiM pista. wonderful looking dash. i do not understand how to use it. since it was $$$, i can't just CRUNCH IT. so i gave it away to my BSR buyer.

lar, i would get another traqmate, if you download my data, expalin to me what i need to do to go faster and edit my video with your cool music ;-)

Larry Herman
05-19-2011, 06:57 AM
John, we sell and use Racepak (G2X and IQ3) for our data coaching. It is far superior in terms of power and data manipulation as compared to a Traqmate. If you are interested in learning more about them, PM me with your number and we'll talk.

FTS
05-19-2011, 08:15 AM
Larry, do you know if RacePak finally released the ODB II adapter? Every time I call them, they say "this month."

Larry Herman
05-19-2011, 08:33 AM
I was told "this month". :ROFL!: :-((

As soon as I can get a few shipped, I'll let you know.

FTS
05-20-2011, 04:36 AM
Too funny, even you :)

Yes, please let me know.

beez
06-01-2011, 04:47 PM
Been lurking for a week or so - nice place you guys have here...

I think everyone, including coaches can benefit from coaching... no matter who you are or how good you are, little things creep into your driving that generally only someone else can really pick out. Always good to get a second opinion.

Along with being a PCA DE instructor, I'm one of the lead instructors at the Ron Fellows performance driving school and the Advanced Driving and Racing School at Spring Mountain near Las Vegas. Yes, I do a lot of instructing in Corvettes. I also do a lot of one-on-one coaching from intermediates to professional full-time racers, often through the school, but I'm often asked to fly to other tracks to coach. I've coached in everything from street Corvettes and Porsches to full-race C6Rs and Porsche Cup cars, as well as sports racers like 4 and 8 cylinder Radical race cars.

I think coaching is best received by drivers who are at the point where they begin to know and understand what they don't know - usually in the advanced-intermediate, and advanced driving level. It does take a while to learn the basics, then reach that point of enlightenment. But, they need to be receptive to coaching. I was surprised (maybe you wouldn't be) at how many drivers have hired me to validate how good/fast they are, as opposed to wanting to learn something new, or get an honest evaluation from another party how they're doing. While it does make it easy if you tell them what they want to hear - "hey, you're great!" - and lucrative, it's not very fulfilling for the coach, at least it's not for me. What's also been a surprise to me is how many who would consider themselves advanced drivers don't have that "unconscious" mastery of some of the basics. I'd say close to 40% of the advanced drivers I've coached either don't know how to properly H&T, or they do it poorly... and quite a few don't have good visual scanning skills - they don't look up the track far enough or don't use their side windows to "look ahead" when necessary.

I think the use of data logging equipment for the review of the telemetry can be very valuable, but you also need to know what you're looking for. For coaching purposes, it's good to have empirical data to be able to compare the process from lap-to-lap - a great way to be able to judge consistency and incremental improvement, but it's only one tool in the tool box. Data can tell you lots of stuff, but there's also many things it can't... things that only a good coach in the right seat can see and feel... like visual scanning, smoothness, anticipation, H&T skills, braking (too early, too late, over slowing the car), carrying momentum through corners, and probably most important - car balance... how balanced is the car at turn in, apex and exit, and how does that effect the car's momentum on corner exit.

FTS
06-01-2011, 04:53 PM
Brad, welcome to our community, it is really great to have you here. Also, wonderful first post :-DD

beez
06-01-2011, 05:16 PM
Brad, welcome to our community, it is really great to have you here. Also, wonderful first post :-DD

Thank you for the warm welcome ... yes, that's a Cayman S in my avatar... btw, take a look in your e-mail - I sent you something to consider from the file you sent me.

SH || NC
06-01-2011, 05:43 PM
+1 on what Brad said, but purely from the student perspective. :)

I feel like I am at that driver '...who are at the point where they begin to know and understand what they don't know" I talking with friends and doing research to try to make an informed decision about getting some coaching later this year.

TRAKCAR
06-01-2011, 07:37 PM
Hello Beez,

Welcome to the pages. Thanks for your post :-DD

I had my first coach in November and I should have done it years ago :beatinghead: It was a great learning experience that I plan to repeat once a year on tracks that I think I pretty much have figured out as much as I will on my own.


I was surprised (maybe you wouldn't be) at how many drivers have hired me to validate how good/fast they are, as opposed to wanting to learn something new, or get an honest evaluation from another party how they're doing. While it does make it easy if you tell them what they want to hear - "hey, you're great!" - and lucrative, it's not very fulfilling for the coach, at least it's not for me.



:-DDD
Racers with an attidude and arrogance. Whoda tunk it!

I can't H&T worth a crap, but if you need some help telling the greats how great they really are, all you have to do is feed me (You'de be surprised) and fly me to a racetrack :pals:

Glock Guru
06-02-2011, 08:29 PM
For you Sebring guys I HIGHLY suggest you hire Chris Hall for the day. Super great guy, fun to learn fun, Pro ALMS driver. Everyone I know that has had him as a coach learned a lot, went faster and safer and had a blast.


Chris was one of my instructors when I went to the Porsche Driving School. I found him to be a great instructor.

What's the best way to get in contact with him for private instruction?

-Troy

TRAKCAR
06-02-2011, 08:34 PM
From: Chris Hall [mailto:hallmotor@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:21 PM
To: hallmotor@aol.com (hallmotor@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Chris Hall Coaching Availability
<O:p</O:p
Hi Everyone,

Thanks to all of you that have used me in the past and spread the good word about my coaching services. It is most appreciated.

Attached is a spreadsheet of the days I am available. This is for the remainder of 2011 and please me know ASAP when you would like to use me and I will lock you in.

Cheers and thanks again.
<O:p</O:pCHRIS HALL
Chris Hall Racing (http://www.chrishallracing.com/)<O:p</O:p
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 299pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=399><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 109pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5302" width=145><COL style="WIDTH: 95pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4644" span=2 width=127><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 109pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl65 height=17 width=145>Club</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 95pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl65 width=127>Venue</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 95pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl65 width=127>Date</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>PBOC</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Homestead</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>18-19 Jul</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Road Atlanta</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>1-Jul</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Safe</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Sebring</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>2-Jul</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Homestead</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>16-Jul</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Rezoom</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Road Atlanta</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>19-Aug</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Sebring</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>20-Aug</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Rezoom</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Road Atlanta</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>5-Sep</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Road Atlanta</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>12-Sep</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Barber</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>24-25 Sep</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Safe</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Sebring</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl64>25-Sep</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Sebring</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>8-9 Oct</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Rezoom</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Barber</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>5-6 Nov</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Rezoom</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Roebling</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>19-20 Nov</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Chin</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Road Atlanta</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>26-27 Nov</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Florida Sports Car Club</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Daytona</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>2-4 Dec</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" height=17>Rezoom</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0">Daytona</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl63>9-11 Dec</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

beez
06-02-2011, 11:08 PM
Chris is a great guy, and one of the best coaches in the business.

Skypalace
08-06-2011, 12:47 PM
...
Data can tell you lots of stuff, but there's also many things it can't... things that only a good coach in the right seat can see and feel... like visual scanning, smoothness, anticipation, H&T skills, braking (too early, too late, over slowing the car), carrying momentum through corners, and probably most important - car balance... how balanced is the car at turn in, apex and exit, and how does that effect the car's momentum on corner exit.

I agree with most but not all of this, many of these things CAN be seen with data, for example braking, momentum, and car balance can be easily seen with data. With wheelspeed data (most current cars with data connected with CAN have independent wheelspeed from all four corners), and then (optionally) adding steering wheel angle sensor, you can chart yaw.

Add syncrhonized video, and you can see exactly what the data is showing you (or vice versa, see something on the video and you can go see what this 'does' to the data).

Sure it's easy for a coach to spot this stuff, esp. if there are significant issues, but a ridealong coach isn't always possible for various reasons, and there are always sessions where you will be running solo.

Data has been the first mod I made to my first two race cars (Pi in my RS America and Motec in my 996 Cup), and my 997 Cup came with Motec, so I've had data in all three of my race cars. I have synchronized Chasecam in both the Cups.

Since I don't have a right seat, the vast majority of coaching I get from others is from analysis of video and data. Mostly video - they'll watch the video and point things out etc. I'll then go look at the data to make sure I fully understand exactly what's going on etc. I of course do much more self-analysis of data than I get in third-party analysis also.

Sometimes I'm lucky enough to be able to get video and/or data from a top pro driver in a similar car at the same track, so being able to analyze properly is very helpful.

Data does take a while to understand and to be able to fully use. Just like I never pass up an opportunity for someone to watch my video/data and give me tips, I never pass up an opportunity to see how someone else uses data.

I'm apparently different from Mooty - he wants to know how to go faster without needing to know all the details. I'm the opposite, I want to know all the gory details about what's going on with the car. Someone can say 'ease off the brakes earlier in turn 2', and I'll immediately want to go look at brake and longitudinal G traces to see what's happening under braking in 2 versus other corners, look at the synced video to see where exactly I'm easing off, etc.

Data allows me to do lots of self-coaching. I usually know exactly where that last little bit of time is, and it's usually not in technique. I usually know intellectually where I can carry more speed, but my foot doesn't always agree, and sometimes insists on lifting even when I'm telling it to stay planted :-) Or carries the brakes a little long even when I go I can carry a little more speed into that super-fast corner :-)

My rule #1 on data is to have it working reliably, along with video, and record every session, always. When I don't have a lot of time, the first thing I'll do is look at a trace of my fast lap of a session, versus my previous fast lap at that track (sometimes I'm faster, sometimes I'm slower) and look to see where the differences are (in Motec this is 'Show Variance'). If I'm picking up time somewhere, this tells me I made a good change, and to keep doing it. If I'm losing time somewhere, it tells me that I used to be better than I am now. I'll then look at other laps from the session compared to the fast lap, to see if there are common places where I often (but not always) lose time. This shows where I CAN be fast, but am not always as consistent as I need to be.

Of course, I'm at a different place than many, I'm usually looking for tenths of a second. I'm racing not DE, and I'm naturally both competitive and analytical. I like to be on pole, and if I'm not on pole I'm not far off, so I'm likely not making significant mistakes or driving errors.

One other thing that data does is let me quickly see that the car is working properly. Fuel pressure and battery voltage and fuel usage and speed at the end of the straight etc. etc. all let me see that I'm not starting to have fuel system or electrical or engine power problems that might become more severe. Also very helpful in diagnosis - I had a flakey fuel system problem and data let me 'prove' to the shop that wanted to replace some particular parts that it couldn't possibly have been those parts (I had two separate fuel pumps, and data showed that I had a problem on one side and not another, so common systems could not have been the problem). Turned out to be a collapsing hose between the cell and one of the pumps, after some swapping of pieces and data analysis discounted any other reasonable hypothesis.

dan212
05-22-2012, 11:37 PM
I used Traqmate for more than 4 years. Worked like a charm. Like it.

I use a Mac and run Parallels. Sadly thats probably the way all the software will be be for a long time. There will be windows versions only. Parallels or VMware. Very fast, cheap and easy to use.

Traqate always worked. Never had an issue with it once.

Tried Race-Keeper and did have issues with it not getting a GPS signal within a certain amount of time and giving up. Ran it in manual record mode. Didn't like the video. Didn't think the software was useful. Disappointed and sold it and put my traqmate back in.

Other people love Race-Keeper so there you go.

I tend to look at the data before even glancing at video. The software is that useful.

Syncing video and software is relatively easy. Find a couple of data points, RPM, lateral load or friction circle and a few places to confirm that you have lined things up. Takes me about 60 seconds. Sometimes 2 minutes on a bad day. And thats only if I feel like having the video as a souvenir. You can learn quite a bit just by watching and listening to your video. But then you want to look at the data :)

As for the Traqmate software. I think its probably the easiest and most accessible of the bunch. Very easy to get up to speed with. If you are struggling just ask someone who has one to show you their process.


I have an AIM/MXL Pista now on my car (wiring issues required it). Love the Dash.. The AIM software (Same as for the SOLO/DL) is very powerful, but the learning curve is massive and I build analytics software for a living. AIM software is amazing and I can see things that I couldn't in the traqmate software, but it took a sizable investment in time to learn it. I wouldn't recommend it to a computer novice or data acquisition beginner under any circumstances.

Traqmate is just easier to use out of the box. Everything about it is easier. If you have trouble with it, there should be someone around who can show you how to quickly pull up your data and show you how to see some useful info.

AIM Software doesn't build video out of the box except with Smartycam, but you can use Dashware or Trackvision to build souvenir videos. A slight nuisance, both are equally easy to use. And frankly, I haven't bothered to build a video once in the last three months. To me, They are mostly for show and tell.

I would't give an absolute about which comes first the coach or the DA. Because frankly we never stop needing coaching or instructing from time to time. I tell students always to get a camera at a minimum (ASAP) and do suggest advanced studets to get some kind of DA system. It is incredibly useful at that point. Thats also because the advanced students don't have instructors any more and the DA is there to help them.

But no matter what level of experience you have, no matter how good you are, no matter how fast, how much seat time you have - some right seat observation/coaching is useful at least once or twice a year. We all need it from time to time. We never stop learning.

IMHO: Anyone who thinks that there isn't anything someone else can't teach them is kidding themselves.

I try to work with one of a couple of guys at least a once or twice a season. Never fails to help me. Just because you are "solo" doesn't mean that you don't need coaching/instructing - call it whatever you want from time to time. I need it for sure. Its amazing what someone can see, feel and recognize from the right seat.

It never ends...

And..... Its not like the highest top level pro or F1 driver doesn't have a team of people looking at their data and telling them what they need to do to go faster. There may be a point, because of car or whatever that someone can't actually physically ride in the seat next to you, but still someone is looking at your data working with you to be better. At some point your "coach" might not be as fast as you. But you still need it.

Because we all want to get better and better. Thats what we all want right??

Skypalace
05-23-2012, 01:23 PM
I wholeheartedly agree that coaching is valuable at any level.

I never ever pass up an opportunity for a pro to look at my video and/or data. I've had plenty of poles and track records, and won my share of races and championships, but I know that I've never driven a perfect lap in my entire life!

A driver doesn't even HAVE to be faster for their feedback to be useful. If they're the same lap time, they're likely a little quicker in some areas, I'm a little quicker in others, if we can find where they're carrying a little more speed, it'll help my overall lap times.

And of course some people are just great coaches. We don't diss a pro football or basketball or baseball coach because they can no longer hang with the players on the field.