Brake cooling

[TRAKCAR]

Maybe I have more info about this, Ican start with fender flap thingies:

[FTS]

Your expectation is to have the flaps create a vacuum around the wheel, so the hot air inside to dissipate faster through the wheel? I think that might work, are you getting much fade with the stock setup?

Have you looked at all to how much plumbing there is behind the front bumper? Would it not be possible to get some NACA ducts routed from the front to the brakes?

[TRAKCAR]

Yes, I am also looking at CUP splitter. It might reduce air gooing to scoops. Not sure what is possible, but we are looking at what CUP cars are doiing I guess.

Looking tto try diufferent pads and front rotors as well. Looking for less $ per session. Pagid R29 are lasting, but they feel like crap as soon as they are worn 50%.

[FTS]

I am not sure why there aren't more people trying the Pagid Greys, they seem like they much better friction while cold and at 600 deg Celsius and Pagid claims them to be endurance oriented.

[FTS]

As I was working on the car changing pads and so forth, I took a more detail look at the brake cooling. There are two cooling channels (or air guides) on each corner. At the front, the higher up channel is taking air from the inside front wheel fender opening, which is actually fed from the front radiator openings and probably the some of the excess air is routed there. If this is true, then there must be enough room for a 2-3" NACA duct from the side of the front radiators.

Very similar arrangement in the rear as well. There is an opening at the bottom towards 2/3rd from the middle that channels additional air into the rear rotors, in addition to the plastic air guides mounted in front of the rear tires. I am sure a at least 2" NACA duct would fit in there easily, but since the air guide is routed fairly efficiently from the looks of it, I am not sure how much more improvement a NACA duct would make there.

[stujelly]

Yes, I am also looking at CUP splitter. It might reduce air gooing to scoops. Not sure what is possible, but we are looking at what CUP cars are doiing I guess.

Looking tto try diufferent pads and front rotors as well. Looking for less $ per session. Pagid R29 are lasting, but they feel like crap as soon as they are worn 50%.

Did you do a thread on aftermarket ducting to cool your front brakes. I must be retarded I can't find it.

[TRAKCAR]

I never got under the car to take picture.
Here are the 2 pictures from the front and side, but Orbit tell me there are als NACA ducts under tha car that take in air from the bottomk and pipe it to the rotors where normally the AWD system goes on a Turbo and I added Turbo S scoops that are lightly larger and need a little adjusting to fit.

I think I did not need it with the PFC pads and rotors, but where we drive you can never have too much cooling.

Hope to see you at Sebring this winter!

[FTS]

That looks like a good solution, although I am not having cooling issues just yet. Is that 1" or 2" pipe? Part of the problem that continued for me even after the installation of the NACA ducts on the Cayman was I could only direct the air onto the inner rotor and not into it or into the caliper, that created more pronounced temp differences between inner and outer rotors, which in turn, created moderate differences in inner and outer pad wear; however, I did not have any brake issues after the installation, especially with PFC rotors.

[TRAKCAR]

It is a 2" pipe and I don't know what comes from the bottom and where it is aimed at near the rotor. I did not even remember to look at the brake ducts when Randy changed my brake pads during Mancation (I was paying close attention to handing beers to Randy and myself :-8) and orbit serviced the car when I came back and told me all is OK.

The ducting is probably not needed with the PFC stuff, but I don't think it can hurt either.

The PFC stuff has such a great brake feel that the brakes have become such a non issue that I have to remember to look at the pads or anything else. The Pagids felt so crappy I was looiking at the pads every other session after 4 days on track. :-)

[FTS]

Can't have a better endorsement than that I think :)

Pad beveling is still happening though, right? As I think that is partly due to caliper piston design and not pad or rotor dependent.

[TRAKCAR]

Minimal tapering; Not enough for me to bother with flipping the pads.
This was the worst tapered front pad after 10 (Non Sebring) days, used VS new and the rears don't taper at all:

[stujelly]

great info as always. I am ordering PFC this week. Looking to try those before birmingham and road atlanta in november

[FTS]

Minimal tapering; Not enough for me to bother with flipping the pads.
This was the worst tapered front pad after 10 (Non Sebring) days, used VS new and the rears don't taper at all:

Great comparative photos, thank you Peter.

[BlkGT3]

It has to be the PFC design/compounds as when I was running Hawk DTC70 on my M3 after 3 days they would be tapered badly and the pedal would be 1/2 way to floor. Switched to PFC 01 and they wear longer, almost no taper and pedal stays higher. ;)

Peter

[TRAKCAR]

Yes, same here. Still running DTC 70 on my Mustang (4 piston Alcon front) Maybe time to switch to PFC08 there as well.

[bman]

Great info Peter, thanks!

I've been following your threads on rotors, pads and cooling anticipating the need to upgade my components. But I've had an "unusual" experience with my car.

I switched from PCCB's this past March. I replaced with a lightly used set of '10 Cup rotors and calipers. The rotors are the same as the stock .2 GT3 steel. The front rotors had a moderate amount of cracking but nothing near the edge or interconnecting between holes. Assuming they wouldn't last long I purchased a backup pair of front rotors at the same time. Surprisingly I have not changed the original USED rotors and have about 18-20 days on them. Cracking has grown but still not at the point where I would replace. Granted I don't have the harsh Florida heat but I have run many days with ambient temps above 95f.

I am baffled by this......I fully expected to have replaced the original rotors and the replacement set by now. I don't know if it's a fluke, something to do with the GT2 cooling or the CUP caliper. Hopefully someone will come to my defense when it comes to driving hard....... I have stopped late braking every corner, not sure that makes a difference.

FWIW, I had converted my Cayman to GT3 rotors and calipers and would go through stock drilled rotors in less than 10 days with RS19 pads. I switched to AP and they've held up for 1yr and half. Although my wife drives it mostly now.

I ran RS19's most of this year and experience a lot of tapering. I flip them often. I've just switched to RS14 and will be watching the tapering. I will likely be trying some PFC 08s thanks to your feedback.

[TRAKCAR]

I suspected as much and don't think it's a fluke, same here but glad you are confiming it.
Most drivers are rather safe then sorry and replace them earlyish.

I have 2 sets of OEM fronts that I wanted both to run longer, but PFC insisted I try their pads with threir rotors, so now I have 2 sets of front OEM rotors with 15 days on them, not knowing how much longer they would have lasted.

My guess is 20 days until I fully creack them, knowing I have a backup set with me.
I fully cracked many rotors in my Mustang, I see no danger in it. Plus they usually crack during cool down.

I replaced the first OEM set, so I had that set as backup when I put new ones on the front and then I got the PFC rotors a bit earlier then planned, so now I have 2 sets of front backup rotors. The plan is to run PFC until the crack (I mean completely) and then do the same with the worst set of OEM fronts. Then I know how quickly, if at all the PFC rotors will pay off.

I do like non-driller rotors better because the feel the same weather you blow out the holes or not plus I don't worry so much about them. The holes cracking further just makes me a bit less confident that a solid rotor that has hairline cracks everywhere.

I never ran 19's so don't know, but I am very impressed with the minimal tapering of the pads, just due to pads!