Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

AIM setup is only a true data logger with an EVO or other datalogger unit; the SC only does video with the data overlay.

I think its time to break this out into another thread. :>)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Fatih, Scott just covered it. With that said, SmartyCam has the ability to provide the data file if that open that open to the end user. But right now, it is just overlay with the data file locked inside :(

My reco for SC was based on the poor performance of the ChaseCam camera systems.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Data loggers are definitely another thread. I am working on an approach, but I still need few weeks to possibly bring an option for our Register. We'll see...

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

+911

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I just overnighted my Trackmate Display Unit to Traqmate in a last ditch effort..

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I was referring to street cars.. I beat the crap outta the gators on my race car!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I put these side by side:

I think it is all tire grip, brakes and LSD, I seem to drive the same?
Rear tires because they were corded day one and full thread day 2, the front hooks up much better but that is because LSD losened up, the front tires I had in 2011 were about 12/13 days old.

2010 Much faster through sweepers, ass planted much more. What I lose in T1 I make more than up through S-es. Temps were colder needed 6th. on back straight, even coming out of Oaktree slower in 2nd.
2011 Much faster through T1 and oaktree.

Next time I will try short shifting through the small first S-es.

2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goB2-...mbedded#at=240
2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqQ2K0pTwo4

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

It is hard to find fault from the videos given the corded/used up tires; without grip and/or full braking ability that comes with new pads, it is hard to do any better IMHO, but here it goes:

• I really think you are loosing time by shifting to 4th and back down to 3rd between T1 adn T3. And because you are down shifting to 3rd at the entry of T3, you Vmin was a little too low laps 2 and 3.
• I know you can carry more speed through T5a, you just don't seem to be committed to the turn enough may be.
• The uphill esses, T10 seems great, but you are over-braking into T11, and then turning in a little too early into T11a (Oak Tree), your Vmin is in the low 40s, whereas you can keep it up to higher 40s (48-49 mph).
• You top speed is lower than I expected, only about 2-3 mph higher than mine, I wonder if you're car is heavier than mine, but I would have expected a little higher on the straights
• Going into T16 and taking Hog Pen in 4th I think results in a very slight lower speed that may be impacting you on the front straight rather than the Hog Pen itself. You maybe overbraking into T16, it seemed like you could wait tiny bit longer before hitting the brakes, but hard to tell with the vid only.

Cheers,

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Thanks Fatih!
:pals:

• I really think you are loosing time by shifting to 4th and back down to 3rd between T1 adn T3. And because you are down shifting to 3rd at the entry of T3, you Vmin was a little too low laps 2 and 3.

I wish you were right, I partly agree. I tried, but hate bouncing the car off the rev limiter. Rev limiter messes with balance too even if it would be faster, I could learn to drive it I guess, but just hate the sound, feeling and TypeI overrevs.
It is faster in T14. No rev limiter there, but I went to 6 if I was not on a good flyer lap. You are right in that I overslow the car still.

• I know you can carry more speed through T5a, you just don't seem to be committed to the turn enough may be.

I agree looking at the video, I really tried but I screwed up often and slid over 5b. Sometimes rear, sometimes front washed out.
Taking it in 4th. might settle the car better? Needs work for sure, just not sure how yet.

• The uphill esses, T10 seems great, but you are over-braking into T11, and then turning in a little too early into T11a (Oak Tree), your Vmin is in the low 40s, whereas you can keep it up to higher 40s (48-49 mph).

Need coaching there too. I had it so side ways into T11 and on my way to Oaktree, slowing me down through oaktree so many time, I backed it up to make sure I got it right through Oaktree.

• You top speed is lower than I expected, only about 2-3 mph higher than mine, I wonder if you're car is heavier than mine, but I would have expected a little higher on the straights

Non RS is always slower. More wing and wide body. At Sebring we can pass CUP cars in MKI GT3, they are faster out of the corner because of gearing, but than we'd catch up on longer gearing with much less drag. Same here.

• Going into T16 and taking Hog Pen in 4th I think results in a very slight lower speed that may be impacting you on the front straight rather than the Hog Pen itself. You maybe overbraking into T16, it seemed like you could wait tiny bit longer before hitting the brakes, but hard to tell with the vid only.

Agreed completely, each time I tried to brake a little later/less I could not keep my foot going down onto front straight. I tried 3rd. but upset my flow and made it even more difficlt to keep therear planted. Here I know what to do, but can't :-DDD

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Thanks for the comparison vids, I really need to get back to VIR

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

yes you do!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

When will you be back

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Since this thread is centered around South Bend and we are scheduled to go to VIR coming weekend, just a cautionary vid from this weekends' Grand-Am race, the Boxster Crash, courtesy of Deman Motorsport:

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I'll be dialing back my driving this weekend :)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I am not so sure Dell, there a lot of people coming from across the whole country just to drive with you, including some drivers that got in at the last moment for the privilege ;)

:D

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I think one has to keep this in perspective; no one should be scared of SB. Danger awaits anywhere on track when missteps are made, not just SB.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

:-DDD:-))):ROFL!:

Fine, I'll step it up.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Quite a few offs in South Bend in the Rolex race too. And hog pen!

I was running with some of the Deman Boxsters at the David Murry event last month.


What does dial back mean? 2:04? ;)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Give or take a few :ROFL!:

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Ugh that Boxster roll was nasty. What got him (aside from running off the right side)? That initial jerk to the left (:14-:15) I guess set the final result in motion? I always like to try and learn from this stuff if possible.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I will say that the jerk to the left at :14 was probably not driver input but terrain undulation forcing the wheel left. As far as the rest, I'll keep silent in a public forum :)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Bman, I noticed you shuffle steering in your vid. I strongly urge you to avoid that habit. There is simply no need for you to ever move your hands from the 10/2 o'clock position on the wheel on a race track. Try it and see how you do, then report back.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

After watching this one repeatedly, my guess is that he was too focused on the car in front of him and not driving his own line. There didn't seem to be any other explanation as for why he drove it off the road. Once he was off, he was toast, as the ruts were obviously very deep. I agree with Dell in thinking that is what caused the wheel to jerk (it was the rut, not the drivers input). Glad to hear he's O.K. Be safe out there, kids! Keep the shiny side UP!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Agree 100% with 24Cr.

There is no reason to remove your hands from the wheel. Couple reasons: 1. If the wheel shifts unexpectedly you have lost control of the wheel. 2. There are NO places on any track where you will require more than 180 degrees of input or correction. 3. By shuffle steering you can very easily lose focus what direction your wheels are pointed. With your hand always at 9/3 (or 10/2) you will always know what direction your wheels are pointed. This is crucial in determining slip angle and slip angle correction. Remember, you feel the physics of what the front end of the car is doing through the wheel. More data input is better.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Thanks for the feedback!

I've been working to reduce my shuffle steering over the last year. In the process, I've actually gotten the opposite feedback from others when I stopped moving my hands totally. Comments have been "your hands are too crossed". So is that an indication that I'm turning in too late?

I'm still relatively new to the track with 2 years of driving. Luckily I haven't developed too much muscle memory and can make changes. I've got 3 days at VIR to work on it this weekend.:) Dell.....looking forward to meeting you and getting more tips!!!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Looking forward to it as well! And thank you for taking the constructive tips. I am always hesitant to offer advice. I still have PTSD from all the smackdowns you see on Rennlist when advice is offered up.

I wouldn't necessarily say that you are turning in too late but that would definitely contribute to increased steering angle. I would have to see the steering angle input. It's great that you have video as we can always use that to verify. The places we will really check for steering angle input is T4 (Left Hook), T11a (Oak Tree), and T14a (Roller Coaster).

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

How can anyone not appreciate it when someone takes the time to watch and comment? I've been know to buy a few drinks in appreciation :-8

That's where I watched yours and it looks like you're crossed over, just slightly and very briefly, in those corners. I need to watch footage of when I was not releasing the wheel......I think I was crossing over more than you, probably because I was turning in later and adding more steering. I've changed my line since then, so I'll work on holding my hands this weekend and see how it feels/works.

I really don't understand "determining slip angle and slip angle correction". I understand the meaning and concept but don't know how reconginize, apply or correct it effectively. Should make for good apres' track discussion.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Slip angle is probably easier to explain over a beer :)

However, the quick explanation is that when you deform the contact patch the tire (lateral load) will travel in a direction not the same as the direction of travel of wheel input. As counter-intuitive as it seems, you actually WANT to deform the contact patch. Grip will INCREASE as you deviate from a delta of 0 degrees. However, there is a limit for each tire. Could be as little as a couple degrees up to as much as 6, 7, or more depending on the type of tire (i.e., slick vs. DOT-R vs. street). Your goal is to take that slip angle to the limit and NOT cross over. This premise is the very reason why weight transfer is the enemy. The more weight transfer, the more lateral load you generate and thus quickly exceed the slip angle. Once you get a good feel for what the slip angle is for your specific car and setup you can take the car right up to it and then modulate throttle, brake, steering angle, to dance on that line.

**rest of reply edited for discussion over beer :)**

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I hope so.... :)

Thanks! I am with you.

I have been working a lot on feeling the chassis. Trying to be more aware of weight transfer and balance while braking, coming off brake and applying throttle. But everything with me is feel.....

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Ummm, sorry, but... how is VIR T1 a decreasing radius, I always thought it is increasing radius actually :o

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Good catch. I was typing and thinking just the opposite in my explanation. T1 is actually increasing radius. Bonus points for Fatih! Another reason it is better explained over a beer :)

What I tried to say and what I typed are two different things. Post edited and tabled for discussion over beer :)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Love the idea, but over beer that critical turn might actually become a straight :D