Close Call at South Bend
 

I was comparing laps between last month's Zone 2 event and the David Murry event from this week. Unfortantely, I had a connection problem with my Smarty Cam and didn't get MPH, RPM's, throttle, etc... at David Murry. It recorded lap times but without the other data it was hard to compare segements.

In any case I found this interesting clip from Zone 2 where I come close to losing it in T10. See 1:15. It was only my 2nd event in the GT2 and even though it looks innocent on the video, it was a close call. I had TC on but SC off. I lost my MoJo for the rest of the session and came in early.:( It turned out to be a decent lap but this was the session where I intended to put down something quicker.

Sorry for the poor editing, I intended to edit it to a single lap but somehow I extended it for a lap and 1/2.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Brian, that is definitely a close call on T10 IMHO. I know how that feels, I had it on the CS couple of times at lower speeds, that would definitely rattle me up too.

As a side note, if you had data to trace out, I could show you exactly how to cut down probably another 3 secs, just on the screen and you'd be amazed. I am not saying this because I am faster, I certainly am not, but you have this nice, calm and calculated driving ability that I know you could just smash your times down without additional risks. It would all show in the data. I don't have your calmness and fluidity, so I struggle to execute on what I know I should be doing. Ohhh how I wish I could show you... :( Get a data logger!!!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I believe you and I am considering adding a logger.

Did you see Grassroots this month? Peter's article. I'll be reading it again!

Okay, I am being yelled at "get off the computer....it's time to go to brunch" :hello:

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Yes, of course I read it, good tid bits. You should see the analysis he did on my driving from the same event, priceless ;)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

You tracked out, put a wheel on the strips, and the rear end got loose? Maybe due to wetness? It looked kinda damp. Looks like you caught it smoothly. What kind of set up are you running?

South Bend is such a pucker area, but I love it.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Ha, you edit film? I'm too laze, I upload the whole thing ;-)

Nice, fast driving!
Looks like you just got on some dirt or wet, did not drop a wheel I think, but could be. You caught it nice and smooth.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

looks like just a weight shift .. more gas coming outta there~!!
Try a lil later turn in @the 2 entrance turns of the esses...@ the 48 sec mark seams to mellow the whole esses some ... just a opinion

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Brian, that looked more like a hiccup than a close call. I too thought you dropped a wheel as you were very close to the edge.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Pretty much stock '08 GT2 but with re-ramped diff and steel brakes. R6 tires in this run.

Too busy is probably more accurate! Too busy driving that is......:D

Lower esses? Yeah, I am not hitting my marks evertime through there. Trailing throttle and rotating the car at that turn in. Ironically my low polar moment Cayman would rotate more than the GT2. I am assuming it's due to the more aggressive diff but I am not sure.

There was some mud on the curbing and I just dropped a small piece of the tire off. I could really feel the car wanting to twist from the change in grip. Several people, who have lost it there, told me the spin was too fast to catch. I was lucky....

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Luck is good!

Very busy looking for front rotors and pad options today..

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I'd have to concur with Matt (930man) on the weight shift. Looks like you were not on the power soon enough to get rear traction. By looking at the display data you were in the 40-50% throttle range, no? Leaving the rear end light in that track out position is what will result in the tail kicking out like that. Smooth recovery though!

FYI....my throttle application there is roughly 50% at apex leading to 100% by track out.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Or weight; your GT2 is probably somewhere between 250-350 lbs heavier than your CS.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I wasn't clear on Matt's input because he mentions the 48 second mark which was the entry to the lower esses. But I think the same applies....I need to take advantage of the rear grip. I've never driven a 911 before, let alone one this powerful, so there's much to learn and understand.

During my track walk last week the pro driver insisted that you touch the left curbing in T10. If not, you'll track out too wide and won't be able to apply full throttle or open the wheel soon enough. I was intentionally staying off the curbing, so I've got work to do in that corner.

She is a bit piggy!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Correct, over the curbing (or as close as you can get to give max track) on the inside of T10 and graze (but don't unsettle) the curbing on track out. It's an EARLY turn-in. The later you turn in the more steering angle you must give and the domino effect of weight transfer starts to multiply quickly.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

And BLIND turn in....that's where I am struggling. Can't seem to find a consistent turn in point. I've got a tendency to over brake too, most likely due to the lack of confidence with the turn in point.

Thanks for your help!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Luke, use the force :)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

more seat and you will get very comfortable in that beast, i wish i could of made that event

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

i need to send you some video! it will help a bunch ... dell has some also .. dell you still have that day you me J mac??

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Post it here please, let's all see it :)

You know, one thing I keep judiciously avoiding is actually touching the curb on the inside of T10, and you guys are actually recommending that. I feel the car unsettles too much to be safe at that speed.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

More power is always ok in a 911... what the difference if you go off couple miles an hour faster... if you you don't have throttle input you don't have grip in a 911.. not enough throttle thats all.

I need to find Vid of me breaking a sway bar mounts entering south bend at 110 mph.. you hear it snap,, then all hell breaks loose but we handle it! lol

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I call BS ,, you dont need to touch curb,, no reason to un settle the car if you dont need to.,.. the theory is to let the car unwind and not to pinch it .. so they say let it hit the curbing so you wont pinch the car... enter a bit early and let it drift out!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Oh Yeah... ALWAYS be ready to unwind the wheel!!! then you can meet Dell on back straight ,,, but you may have some grass on bumper but no Tire wall!!!!!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Ask and ye shall receive: LINK



What blows me away every time I watch that video is the frickin power of your GT2 and Jim's C6R. I had to pull out every trick I knew to stick with y'all. If I was running 2:03's y'all had to be running 2:00 to 2:01 as you easily had 2-3 seconds on me from hogpen to the start/finish.

That was the most fun I have ever had on track. Damn I miss those days :(

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

funny thing was i think i had 16 heat cycles on those Dunlops!! but i did have some pwer and motons in my favor! :)...

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

i need to post some of the lil straight 6 M3! lol that car turned a 1:57! lmao

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

The power was amazing! get to Oak Tree and then we'd hit the back and then WHOOOOOOOOOSH....bye-bye Matt! I was braking between the 1 and the arrow (about the 50 ft mark LOL!) just to gain every advantage I could. Talk about attachment check......trailbraking at T14 coming in at 155 down to 2nd gear.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I'm going backwards. Now I'm tracking my street 996 Turbo 3-4 times a year. 2:08's feel like eternity. BUT I AM NOT DOING SUSPENSION, ETC! She is my weekend fun car.

Damn, getting late....I'm off to bed. The Grey Goose was flowing tonight and the morning is coming quick. See you in a few weeks for the FSR event at VIR?

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

yes sir!!!! fun days!!!!!!
we had some fun!!!!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I have no word man, just no words ::-/ I am not that comfortable running like that, especially on upper essess and T10, just amazing.

I am going to use this as the next video of the week, hope you don't mind.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Damn iPad won't let me see the vid, to lazy to pull the laptop out. Ha

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Absolutely. Great 3 lap sequence to get the blood pressure up that never gets old watching. As long as you don't hold the exuberant Whoa! and Oh Yeah! when I hit the clag at the top of the esses tracking out before Southbend :eek: and whne I realize I finally hit my best of 2:03. :-DD

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I watch this video and my 214 video to get prepped for VIR. :cool:

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

I don't like the idea of hitting the curb either. I am already struggling to get the car to settle on turn in......too much brake :beatinghead:

Thanks for making my 2:06's feel :o :)

Really, thanks! I will watch this more closely and try to learn from it. Just from a quick glance I see your line through 14-14a is much different than mine....your's more similar to the Pro that drove my car.

What are you driving in this video?

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Car is a street 996 GT3. monoball suspension and motons.

The line through T14 allows me to brake VERY DEEP and carry much more speed into "roller coaster". It straightens out the transition so the 2 direction change trailbrake is less of a weight shift. When I started to really get my times low enough where I was counting tenths instead of seconds, my coach introduced me to that line. You just have to have 100% confidence in your skillset since you are braking about the 50-75 foot brake marker (between the 1 and the turn-in arrow) at 155-165mph and trailing through both T14 and T14a. But once you hit it, it is sublime.

As far as the curbing. Going over T10 is no big deal if the suspension is dialed in properly. It is the track out curbing that you want to either miss or slightly graze. The key to getting your braking and turn-in nailed down is make sure you are on throttle coming out of the esses and then IMMEDIATELY after you go over the crest (between T9-T10) hit the brakes (hard but not unsettling) downshift and then back on the throttle to gain rear-end grip turning in. Another one of those places where once it all comes together it is sublime.

For me, southbend is on of those places on track I was terrified of until I nailed it. Now I know what I (and the car) are capable of and never cross that line :)

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goB2-...mbedded#at=240

This is from last year 2.06's. Toyo RA1 and Pagid 29 CUP LSD.
This year I think I drove better but tires and brakes only let me do 1 2.077 and a bunch of 2.08's. Warmer too, I could stay in 5th into T14 this year coming out of the Oak tree faster.

Changes from last year compared to this year (Video stuck in my car until laptop fixed)
Please critique, I like free coaching ;-)

Changes already made this year:
Oak tree is faster in 3rd and T1 is tighter/ faster now due to less aggressive LSD.
I was still shifting to 4th after T5, I think I should use the lift before T5 to shift to forth to get a more stable faster run to the esses. I do use the first 2 curbs in the esses.
I shift very sloooow, I know.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Nice driving.

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

+1!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Nice couple of laps!

The only input I can offer is a few small tweaks here are there to gain time.

T1-->Get tighter. All the grip is on the inside line. Also, grab second and short shift to third just after track out heading to T2. Staying in third gives back several tenths.

T3-->Again, a bit tighter and earlier. The later the turn in the more steering angle and greater weight shift.

T4-->Grab 2nd and then short shirt to 3rd on the way to T5. This will grab another few tenths.

T7-T8 transition-->Stay a bit further left at T7 turn-in and wait a split second longer before turning up to T8. This offers to major benefits. The first is the longer you wait to turn up the esses the straighter the line to the top becomes (so less steering input). The second benefit is that your steering angle will be easier to have at neutral as you crest T8. 99% of the cars that lose it in the esses (from videos I have watched) seem to be from having steering input as you crest T8. T8 is deceiving since it really unloads the rear end.

T10-->Again, just clean up the braking and turn in a tick sooner.

T14-->Grab 2nd just before the right-hander down the roller coaster and then short shift to 3rd in between T14a and T15. I've tried both and the data shows that extra burst of speed from 2nd grabs you another few tenths.

T15-T16-->Don't grab 4th. Take 3rd to the top. You should be just about redline in 3rd as you hit your brake point for T16. This keeps you in the meat of the power for hogpen. You'll grab 4th on the exit of Hogpen.

By the way, very smooth with the hands. Great driving!

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

i'll have to remember all this for when i make it back to VIR, thanks Dell

Re: Close Call at South Bend
 

Very welcome! By the way, don't you "technically" have a job today? Getting closer. Pulling for y'all!