Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

pboc super solo group, no point by required

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUGjvEXdNz8

Long, but fun to watch I think. No point by's lot's of blocking..SuperSolo DE

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

It's not racing.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

No, it's relaxed.

You see me shift? you shift faster om your way to the supermarket :-)

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

not racing but still fun. getting the free beer from someone else is our 10$ trophy

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

When he says getting, he means stealing.

Mike, aren't you supposed to be busy handing your Amex number to a guy in Philly for a 4.0?
Its 1:58PM.. Tic toc..

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

haha, i have time before i make it back to sebring next year to get a 4.0. im sure there will be one for sale by mooty by then

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

Reter got dibs on that one.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

you dont need it. im slow i need all the help i can get

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

For me I'd like to race someday...but if I don't....oh well I guess. I've raced before....Offshore Powerboats with APBA and I loved the competition. Again like all you racers I was just racing for trophies for the most part but we did have a purse and small purse.

I love doing DE's just for the fun of it and the friends I've made along the way. I know my personality and If I ever got into racing I would naturally make it expensive for myself.

Plus honestly I don't have the money to turn my 2009 Porsche into a race car and an older lower cost Porsche with Tip Tronic would never ever be competitive.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

Trackrat, you reached the nub of the DE-Racing issue with your points.

I never progressed to racing after DE and instructing because I too reached the same realization as Dell, and he put it quite simply:

When I get back in the game soon, I will also take Dell's insight and run with it. When I modded my old 944 Turbo for the track (upgrading to track tires, big reds, increased boost, added a cage and seats...) I seemed to be riding on an asymptotic, going for smaller and smaller improvements in time, and increasing costs (and stress) exponentially. Same goes for racing, you will no doubt learn new things, but at what price?

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
Wes

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I totally agree with Larry on this topic. As a relatively newbie to racing (about 15 total races), the rush from wheel to wheel racing dwarfs any excitement I get from a typical DE. You need to focus 100%, forget the typical DE taught line, and figure out what your plan of attack will be.

I was very reluctant to go PCA racing for a number of years as I thought the typical DE and instructing would be enough of a fix for me. I had a conversation with 2 very experienced and successful Club Racers (Charlie Boyer and Colin Mazzola) who convinced me that the only way for me to get better, turn quicker lap times, and have way more fun was to go racing. Three years later, I am 100% sold!!! And absolutely nothing can compare to the start of a race when the Green drops!!! Everyone should experience a race start at least once!!!

Mike

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

another great thread.

I know why I do not race, I am not worthy yet (or maybe never). Just had Leh Keen take me for a spin in my own Cup car. Good Lord, the gap is very wide for me to make up those 5,6 seconds.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

Hugh I agree with your point for sure. As it is mentioned already, once in racing or time trial competition, I found out that it gets exponentially more costly to keep up with the faster crowd. In the DE environment, mostly bench racing, I find it much easier to keep up with them :D

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

Yep my bench goes faster than anybody, especially with all the stickers!

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I have raced before (offshore boats) an I loved the competition and I miss that with DE....but on the other hand I love the camaraderie and friends I have at my DE's and I enjoy instructing and making DE's fun for new students.
I can't afford a race car so I enjoy taking my street car to the track and going as fast as I can go with no worries of getting a ticket.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I raced years ago, quit (young kids, business), then got into DE's and instructing and had a great time for many years. Made the jump back into racing a couple of years ago...and have now bought another 6GT3 so that I can get back into doing more DE's. I think they are very different activities with racing, and the full race car, being far more intense. It is very expensive and time consuming and just about becomes a second career. I'm looking forward to getting back into some DE's that are far more social and relaxing in addition to racing.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I don't race my GT3 because of the cost (ok - and lack of skills), but I really love high performance driving. I suppose if I raced a cheap car like a Honda or something, my annual cost might even be less than DE-ing my GT3, but I think the GT3 has spoiled me performance-wise. Not sure if I would really enjoy driving a slow, cheap car around the track. A friend tried it with a Toyota Sports Racer and he only lasted a few races before dumping it for a GT3 Cup car.

A regular DE like what I was at last week reminded me of what I don't like about the local track/groups and that is the fixed passing zones. I was a fair bit faster than much of the field (just some guys with their regular street cars) and I was constantly slowing down to a cool-down lap pace from turn 3 all the way through turn 6 for the next passing zone where I'd hope the guy in front checked his mirror and gave me a point. If there were 2 or more cars then I'd be waiting a lot longer. Ugh.

At my fav DE days at ORP with a bunch of friends, we pass anywhere with a point and the guys are fantastic about watching their mirrors (me included - esp when PJ is behind me!). Right rules - right group. If every DE was like that I probably wouldn't even think about racing.

Next year I might take the local race car driving school to get my novice racing license. Then rent a Honda from a guy I know and give it a shot. $500/day with full support is less than my GT3 DE costs so I may as well try it out.

We'll see what happens.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I supposed the "local track/groups" are not PCA since they did not have open passing? Most clubs on the east coast nowadays, allow open passing in black/red type groups, which adds a lot of excitement and enjoyment IMO.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

No open passing here, PCA or not. I'm in BC, Canada and the track (Mission Raceway Park) is small and lined with concrete walls. Many of the really experienced guys are sick of this puny track and don't come anymore. They prefer to cross the border to WA or OR and go to tracks there. So that leaves more junior people here and they don't have the track awareness/skills for advanced passing rules.

I grabbed a lap from my session last week and tossed it on youtube to show you what I came across every 2-3 laps. It starts off with me easing up a bit to confirm what the fella in the turbo was doing (just being safe) and then I caught up to the red car pretty fast, except he didn't have the courtesy to ease up and let me by before the hairpin. He knows I have to wait a while before I can pass him, so why not let me by then? Not a huge deal (I know the guy and he seems nice), but I don't have to deal with stuff like this in Oregon. Better track, better drivers and better passing rules. :-DD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWxjvYkFal0

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

Allan, would it have been considered too aggressive if you had stayed on his bumper a bit more? Any chance that he thought that he was really staying away?

I echo all that you've said above. I don't race cause I can't afford it... and the GT3 has spoiled it for me as well. Even last year, when I had a 997 S and considering the next step, I really did not want to go the way of a 944 or other low power full race car, even though it would have made a lot of sense and have been way cheaper.

There's just something about trying to perfect the driving in these higher-powered, rear-engined cars that we have. It is just so rewarding when you get it right.

We are very lucky in the east, here, to have this many top-level tracks to chose from.

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

I tend to dial it back a little bit in that turn because of the wall. Concrete and my car don't mix too well. :) I understand what you're saying, but in this case he knows I'm way faster than him so it isn't like strangers not being aware of how fast a guy might be. A couple turns back I was nowhere to be seen and now in turn 2, right before the passing zone I'm just behind him. Maybe I'm more aware of other traffic? I don't know.

I feel exactly the same way. :-8

Lucky bugger. Now where's that "jealous as hell" emoticon.... :D

Re: DE, Why Bother?
 

i DE'd for many years.
started racing in 09. great fun, lots of work.
now young kids and more work... may even have to quit racing, aghast....

i like both DE and racing for different reason. DE you can hang out with friends and chew fat. racing, you are all business and just want to set lap times.