Keep Or Sell? 3RS/Spyder vs Cup

Trackrat · #1 05-27-2011, 10:06 PM

So, the inevitable slippery slope question has come forefront:

Dump the affectionately monikered "Piece of Crap" (3RS) and probably Spyder too and buy a Cup?

DE and TT track fun only for me. No real interest in racing. I don't think. The Cup would be a later model with sequential tranny.

1. Is it essentially a given that I must return both modded cars to stock in order to not take a complete and total financial bath upon selling? Or does a market exist for professionally and intelligently modded cars?

2. In a previous thread I proposed and supported a case for tracking a well-modded GT car for fun. Is there a remotely rational (I know, I know...) case to be made for DE and TT'ing a Cup for fun?

I don't have to sell either or both, but it seems pretty silly to let the collection of garage jewels grow even bigger by adding a Cup and keeping everything else.

The 3RS and Spyder are set up as any super-enthusiast would want and it pains me to even consider this

but here it is...I know some of you have been here and can offer some feedback.

Izzone · #2 05-27-2011, 10:54 PM

Let me know when the part sale begins.....

My opinion.....

If you just De why a Cup? You will be much faster than everyone always looking for point bys

I like DE with my friends with teh same car

Festina Lente · #3 05-27-2011, 11:11 PM

A Cup Car is like sex..once you start, you can never stop!

Watch this space for more details on the Porsche Cup Car Experience...absolutely brilliant, and then some!

Trackrat is just ahead of the curve... a man with a plan.

mooty · #4 05-28-2011, 01:17 AM

i dont know. sex and women aren't very interesting to me.

cup... once you drive it, you will never drive your RS on track again. even with my stripper gt3, i find my 3.8RS heavy and lacking. now if you try a late model sequential cup..... you WILL sell your RS. we can bet on it.

PJS · #5 05-28-2011, 01:30 AM

If you don't have to then don't

What's one more? :-)

Glock Guru · #6 05-28-2011, 08:30 AM

A cup car is a little over kill for DE. If you have no intrest in wheel to wheel, then what's the point. For me, I like the thrill of driving a street car to the limit, finding the limit, then making changes to the car (and me) to exceed it. Plus I can always drive it down the street or across the state.

-Troy

TRAKCAR · #7 05-28-2011, 08:46 AM

Just add the CUP car first.
You can always sell the others.

The blue one makes the most sense to sell with the 4.0 on the way, but with the time, money and memories invested I'd never sell it. The 4.0 won't show up until Sept?
The Spyder maybe if you don't value the dop down ride once in a while..

If you do sell, you can first try to sell to fellow nutcase first as-is with all the stuff. I did so with last GT3 and I loved the thought of someone taking the car and continue to track it as intended. Maybe a few $$ less then parting out, but less hassle more satisfaction....

Cupcar, remember that you must trailer and have mechanic with you for CUP. Maybe you can just start them and drive, but I think there might be more to driving a CUP car.
You might go fast, but not like the rough harsh high maint ride after the thrill wears off..
You might love it enough to dump all else and start your own race team, or just use the CUP with full arrive and drive service and just show up with helmet at the races ;-)

Either way there will be a trusty 4.0 and GT2RS waiting to drive you to the circuit.

Trackrat · #8 05-28-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzone

Let me know when the part sale begins.....

My opinion.....

If you just De why a Cup? You will be much faster than everyone always looking for point bys

I like DE with my friends with teh same car

Lol..I will

See, I feel the same way right now? All my track pals with exception of one (Mike!) have street cars and it is fun chasing each other on track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festina Lente

Watch this space for more details on the Porsche Cup Car Experience...absolutely brilliant, and then some!

Trackrat is just ahead of the curve... a man with a plan.

Looking forward to the report(s)! My plans are sometimes a bit over the top, sometimes I need reining in

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooty

cup... once you drive it, you will never drive your RS on track again. even with my stripper gt3, i find my 3.8RS heavy and lacking. now if you try a late model sequential cup..... you WILL sell your RS. we can bet on it.

Yeah, you and Festina...troublemakers the both of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJS

If you don't have to then don't

What's one more? :-)

License, registration, insurance, upkeep...lol. But I do love to drive all of them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock Guru

A cup car is a little over kill for DE. If you have no intrest in wheel to wheel, then what's the point. For me, I like the thrill of driving a street car to the limit, finding the limit, then making changes to the (and me) to exceed it. Plus I can always drive it down the street or across the state.

-Troy

That has always been my thought too. But you need one now to keep up with Chuck eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR

The blue one makes the most sense to sell with the 4.0 on the way, but with the time, money and memories invested I'd never sell it. The 4.0 won't show up until Sept?
The Spyder maybe if you don't value the dop down ride once in a while..

Cupcar, remember that you must trailer and have mechanic with you for CUP. Maybe you can just start them and drive, but I think there might be more to driving a CUP car.
You might go fast, but not like the rough harsh high maint ride after the thrill wears off..
You might love it enough to dump all else and start your own race team, or just use the CUP with full arrive and drive service and just show up with helmet at the races ;-)

Yes, it would be very hard for me to part with the blue car, a labor of love for sure. 4.0 arriving mid/late-Aug.

That is my other concern- I arrive, unload car and drive in current situation. The blue car require minimal upkeep/prep. Nut and bolt it, check pads, that's it.

I have heard, but don't know the facts, that a Cup is going to require much more time dedicated to maintenance and consumables. I was talking to Fatih last night and told him my concern was that it would be like a (big) boat- your two very best days are the day you buy it and the day you sell it

Arrive and drive or even going to Barber 2-3 times a year might be the better financial proposition to do some occasional Cup driving for fun?

So I do appreciate everyone making comments as it helps me to clarify my thought process. It is a high-class problem for sure and I/we are very fortunate to have these kinds of things to worry about

CWS · #9 05-29-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackrat

Lol..I will

See, I feel the same way right now? All my track pals with exception of one (Mike!) have street cars and it is fun chasing each other on track.

Yes, it would be very hard for me to part with the blue car, a labor of love for sure. 4.0 arriving mid/late-Aug.

That is my other concern- I arrive, unload car and drive in current situation. The blue car require minimal upkeep/prep. Nut and bolt it, check pads, that's it.

I have heard, but don't know the facts, that a Cup is going to require much more time dedicated to maintenance and consumables. I was talking to Fatih last night and told him my concern was that it would be like a (big) boat- your two very best days are the day you buy it and the day you sell it

Arrive and drive or even going to Barber 2-3 times a year might be the better financial proposition to do some occasional Cup driving for fun?

So I do appreciate everyone making comments as it helps me to clarify my thought process. It is a high-class problem for sure and I/we are very fortunate to have these kinds of things to worry about

Okay, let me try to give you a serious response.

1. I would always, always, always keep a 3 RS for lots of reasons, not least of which because it's a special car. Beyond that, there will likely be times when you may not want the hassle of transporting/supporting the Cup or events were you don't feel like bringing a Stinger missile to mix it up with the bare-knuckle brawlers.

So the question on the RS comes down to whether you plan to mod the 4.0 RS (assuming this still has a slot in your warehouse) or bubble-wrap it. If you plan to track and mod then swap all the parts from the 3 RS, return the 3 to stock and sell. Otherwise keep the 3 as your street-legal track toy.

2. Buying a Cup purely for PCA DE events is definitely overkill. Having just spent two days at DE event at The Glen driving and watching Cup cars mix it up with street cars, I can tell you that it's not uncommon to see mid-pack drivers in older Cup cars climbing all over even heavily modded street cars. As an example, an experienced black run group driver I attended event with was running modded Turbo with JRZs/stiffer springs, Hoosiers, etc. He said the Cups were coming up on him like a freight train. He'd have a clear mirror one second then a few seconds later it'd be filled with Cups - didn't matter 996 or 997 Cup. That was on a big wide-open track. Can't imagine a smaller track.

With those caveats aside I'll say that there's no comparison between driving a Cup and a modded street car (short of a full stripper but then what's the point) on the track. Given your trajectory it's inevitable that you'll eventually get into a Cup. Just recognize that it shouldn't be your only track-day tool.

To use an east coast example, it's unlikely you'd want to do a Lime Rock PCA DE where the track is small and the run groups large, but taking it to an limited-participant, open-track Murry event where coaching is part of the equation would be a no-brainer.

3. The fragility of the sequential box is overblown IMHO. The few weak links, such as 3rd gear issues, are easily sorted, and now with everyone running auto-blippers the boxes last just fine as long as you don't do something stupid. Consumables are more about the driver than the car. If you're constantly on the edge you'll use more; not so much, less. Doesn't matter the car.

You seem set on a 997 Cup so I'll save the 996 vs 997 analysis. Just remember that the absolute speed differences between the two are small enough that a better driver in a 996 Cup will be faster than a less skilled driver in a 997 Cup. I'd caution against making too big a jump at once. Jumping into a much faster car without transitioning through intermediate cars is one of the worst mistakes you can make in terms of driver development.

Trackrat · #10 05-29-2011, 10:42 AM

Man, this is seriously good stuff. Nothing like the voices of experience

Thanks to everyone for the contribution!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooty

some disagrees with me. but i am certain that cup car CANNOT be DE'd. i am at BW right now. in my stripper. i ran the race group and red, the fastest group of PCA here. the stripper isn't that fast, i have traffic every 3 turns. i am on someone's bumper. one instance, i moved fast, else i would be in his cabin down the front straight. after one session, i only ran the race group. with cup, you will be on brake a lot than on throttle due to traffic.

No surprise, you are a fast guy in a fast car

I suppose BW would be considered a tight track and technical so would be big differences in speed between those who know the track and those who don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcsracing1

This is why porsche make the "clubsport" RS in europe. For those looking to have a decent track car that can also be easy to own/street legal. It is the best of both worlds.

The 3.8RS will go down in the history books as one of the best 6 speed p-car street strippers of all time. You will see a lot of these RS models at tracks in 20 years. Fully stripped and on trailers.

Now, that being said, by the time 2013 rolls around you may actually want to sell the RS track trainer and buy a 991 CUP to taste a little racing. Keep the spyder as a collector/toy porsche, as all CUP racers should have at least one old street Porsche to hold in the garage to remember their roots..

You have been there and done that (x2 lol) and what you say makes perfect sense and I cannot argue with the logic. In fact I agree with all of it

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWS

Okay, let me try to give you a serious response.

1. I would always, always, always keep a 3 RS for lots of reasons, not least of which because it's a special car. Beyond that, there will likely be times when you may not want the hassle of transporting/supporting the Cup or events were you don't feel like bringing a Stinger missile to mix it up with the bare-knuckle brawlers.

So the question on the RS comes down to whether you plan to mod the 4.0 RS (assuming this still has a slot in your warehouse) or bubble-wrap it. If you plan to track and mod then swap all the parts from the 3 RS, return the 3 to stock and sell. Otherwise keep the 3 as your street-legal track toy.

2. Buying a Cup purely for PCA DE events is definitely overkill.

With those caveats aside I'll say that there's no comparison between driving a Cup and a modded street car (short of a full stripper but then what's the point) on the track. Given your trajectory it's inevitable that you'll eventually get into a Cup. Just recognize that it shouldn't be your only track-day tool.

3. The fragility of the sequential box is overblown IMHO. Consumables are more about the driver than the car. If you're constantly on the edge you'll use more; not so much, less. Doesn't matter the car.

You seem set on a 997 Cup so I'll save the 996 vs 997 analysis. Just remember that the absolute speed differences between the two are small enough that a better driver in a 996 Cup will be faster than a less skilled driver in a 997 Cup. I'd caution against making too big a jump at once. Jumping into a much faster car without transitioning through intermediate cars is one of the worst mistakes you can make in terms of driver development.

Again, a strong, compelling case put forward by a man who is a similar situation. Your comments are spot-on and perfectly sensible.

This thread is already priceless and should be stickied for all the other tortured souls who will be coming here after me and asking the same questions.

I can see it coming already- a DE run group for race prep cars (Cups) only. HOD is already doing that out here at some events.

Thanks guys, awesome stuff!

FTS · #11 05-29-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackrat

This thread is already priceless and should be stickied for all the other tortured souls who will be coming here after me and asking the same questions.

You're an admin, if you feel it is right thing to do, do it

But I think the advice is quite true. For DE, open tracking or even time trials, not worth the hassle of owning a Cup car. It will require a crew, many other things to worry about that you are not even aware of right now, and at the end, you'll be, ... let's say, 10-15 secs faster a lap; so what?

I think the best part of a Cup car is if you were going into racing and the option was whether to build a race car from ground up vs. a Cup out of factory, then it is a no brainer.