How Different Is Driving a Cup Car?

[Larry Herman]

Originally Posted by CWS

Moving from modern street GT3 to 996 Cup is relatively easy transition. The lower weight of the Cup is offset by less HP (370-390 vs 435-450) so absolute speed difference is not that great.

I respectfully disagree. Unless you are not driving it at its limit, you do not realize how difficult it is. A GT3 is lazy as compared to a Cup, and the reactions are so much slower it is not even comparable. A street GT3 is very compliant and has a high level of grip that stays fairly consistent. A Cup is very stiff, and its higher level of grip is constantly and immediately changing.

When I had my GT3, I raced a 996 Cup at Summit Point (in 2005 on the old bumpy surface), mistakenly thinking that it would be very similar. I used to stuff my GT3 deep into turn 1, trail brake it towards the apex and then jump on the power. Back in the day, 1:21s were easy. The first time that I tried that with the Cup, when I got on the power it literally hopped up in the air and pointed itself directly at the apex, 90 degrees to the track! "I guess that we are not in Kansas any more Toto!" It took a different type of driving, much more reactive and correcting, to make that Cup go fast, but it did and I got it down to a 1:17. But it was enough to get me hooked, sell the GT3 and get an RSA setup just as stiff as a Cup. Now with a friend, I hope to be back in a 996 Cup (as shown) this season.

[CWS]

Originally Posted by FTS

So how difficult is it to move from a street GT3 to a GT3 Cup? When you first get in a Cup and you try to go, what happens?

It sounds like a silly question, even to me, but I am sure it is such a different environment, I wonder how much of a steep curve it is to learn to drive it.

Thank you,

Larry: Valid observations but my response was targeted at FTS' question, which I understood to be more about initial impressions and differences when you go from a street GT3 to a Cup and less about what it takes to race and be fast in the car. I think we agree on the suspension and handling differences. As for street tire grip staying consistent, I found MPSC grip on my street GT3 would change significantly over a session and over the life of the tire, albeit without as severe a penalty as slicks when they fall off. Full disclosure: I've only run my Cup on used slicks to date, which have seen their best days by the time I get them. But fresh slicks are inbound and I'm told they're more addcitive than crack so perhaps I'll have a whole new perspective soon....

[FTS]

Yes, for me at this time, I am trying to prepare myself for the shock of getting into one the very first time. I am looking forward to it, but quite apprehensive about it as well

Being fast is not my objective, but I also find Larry's comments very interesting, because I would not have expected to change my driving style in a cup car. Live and learn...

Btw, CWS and Larry, if you could find the time, I'd love to hear your comments about the GT3 Cup Experience program, even if it just some initial thoughts:

http://www.gt2gt3cup.org/showthread.php?p=1766#post1766

[Larry Herman]

Originally Posted by CWS

I think we agree on the suspension and handling differences. As for street tire grip staying consistent, I found MPSC grip on my street GT3 would change significantly over a session and over the life of the tire, albeit without as severe a penalty as slicks when they fall off. Full disclosure: I've only run my Cup on used slicks to date, which have seen their best days by the time I get them. But fresh slicks are inbound and I'm told they're more addcitive than crack so perhaps I'll have a whole new perspective soon....

MPSCs are the most "slick like" of the R compounds in that they need to get hot to develop their grip, where as an R6 sticks pretty good when cold, so it is not surprising you have found a significant change from cold to hot. That is even more so with fresh racing slicks.

The other point that I was making is that with its soft springs, a GT3 will track fairly evenly over bumps and undulations as it does a good job of maintaining even grip levels. A cup car will bounce and hop over the same surfaces, and so its grip, thought higher, will change radically as the suspension unloads (no grip) and re-loads (lots of grip). It will require a lot more movement of the wheel to manage that changing grip.

[CWS]

Originally Posted by FTS

Yes, for me at this time, I am trying to prepare myself for the shock of getting into one the very first time. I am looking forward to it, but quite apprehensive about it as well

Being fast is not my objective, but I also find Larry's comments very interesting, because I would not have expected to change my driving style in a cup car. Live and learn...

Btw, CWS and Larry, if you could find the time, I'd love to hear your comments about the GT3 Cup Experience program, even if it just some initial thoughts:

http://www.gt2gt3cup.org/showthread.php?p=1766#post1766

No first-hand knowledge of GT3 Cup Experience. Might be a way to go for some but based purely on economics there are much cheaper ways to get behind the wheel of a Cup with coaching included.

[TRAKCAR]

I hear that the '05 CUP cars are getting less cost effective because it is harder to get parts.
I figure when I get even fatter and lazier I buy a cup and just go do DE with full track support while I drive to the track in my comfy massage A/C seat equipped Daily driver.