Close Call at South Bend

[930man]

yes sir!!!! fun days!!!!!!
we had some fun!!!!

[jenk12m]

Damn iPad won't let me see the vid, to lazy to pull the laptop out. Ha

[SH || NC]

I watch this video and my 214 video to get prepped for VIR.

[Dell]

Car is a street 996 GT3. monoball suspension and motons.

The line through T14 allows me to brake VERY DEEP and carry much more speed into "roller coaster". It straightens out the transition so the 2 direction change trailbrake is less of a weight shift. When I started to really get my times low enough where I was counting tenths instead of seconds, my coach introduced me to that line. You just have to have 100% confidence in your skillset since you are braking about the 50-75 foot brake marker (between the 1 and the turn-in arrow) at 155-165mph and trailing through both T14 and T14a. But once you hit it, it is sublime.

As far as the curbing. Going over T10 is no big deal if the suspension is dialed in properly. It is the track out curbing that you want to either miss or slightly graze. The key to getting your braking and turn-in nailed down is make sure you are on throttle coming out of the esses and then IMMEDIATELY after you go over the crest (between T9-T10) hit the brakes (hard but not unsettling) downshift and then back on the throttle to gain rear-end grip turning in. Another one of those places where once it all comes together it is sublime.

For me, southbend is on of those places on track I was terrified of until I nailed it. Now I know what I (and the car) are capable of and never cross that line

[TRAKCAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goB2-...mbedded#at=240

This is from last year 2.06's. Toyo RA1 and Pagid 29 CUP LSD.
This year I think I drove better but tires and brakes only let me do 1 2.077 and a bunch of 2.08's. Warmer too, I could stay in 5th into T14 this year coming out of the Oak tree faster.

Changes from last year compared to this year (Video stuck in my car until laptop fixed)
Please critique, I like free coaching ;-)

Changes already made this year:
Oak tree is faster in 3rd and T1 is tighter/ faster now due to less aggressive LSD.
I was still shifting to 4th after T5, I think I should use the lift before T5 to shift to forth to get a more stable faster run to the esses. I do use the first 2 curbs in the esses.
I shift very sloooow, I know.

[bman]

Originally Posted by Dell

The line through T14 allows me to brake VERY DEEP and carry much more speed into "roller coaster". It straightens out the transition so the 2 direction change trailbrake is less of a weight shift.

The key to (T10) getting your braking and turn-in nailed down

Sorry to keep the questions coming but how do you deal with the slight left hand entry up the hill under hard braking? Do you breathe off ever so slightly to add that touch of steering and then hard on it again? Or are you already turning in when you go to the brake? Late for me is the 2 marker (2 1/2 normally). I know I can go deeper but what's holding me back is that slight turn in. I KNOW you're NOT recommending this, I am just curious how you deal with that slight turn in.

For T10, are you fully off the brake (and on the gas) before adding ANY steering? Or do you have a touch of brake as you begin turn in?

Thanks!!!!

Originally Posted by Dell

T7-T8 transition-->Stay a bit further left at T7 turn-in and wait a split second longer before turning up to T8.

Can't agree more with this one. Staying left and waiting a split second works amazingly well. But at 125+MPH it takes some getting use to.

Originally Posted by jenk12m

i like the woohoos!!! haha

I must be running with the wrong people....I've never WooHoo'd chasing FTS around

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR

This is from last year 2.06's. Toyo RA1 and Pagid 29 CUP LSD.
This year I think I drove better .

Nice Peter! I regret that we didn't run together at David Murry. Next time...

[SH || NC]

Nice driving.

[TRAKCAR]

Thanks for making my 2:06's feel

+1!

[Dell]

Nice couple of laps!

The only input I can offer is a few small tweaks here are there to gain time.

T1-->Get tighter. All the grip is on the inside line. Also, grab second and short shift to third just after track out heading to T2. Staying in third gives back several tenths.

T3-->Again, a bit tighter and earlier. The later the turn in the more steering angle and greater weight shift.

T4-->Grab 2nd and then short shirt to 3rd on the way to T5. This will grab another few tenths.

T7-T8 transition-->Stay a bit further left at T7 turn-in and wait a split second longer before turning up to T8. This offers to major benefits. The first is the longer you wait to turn up the esses the straighter the line to the top becomes (so less steering input). The second benefit is that your steering angle will be easier to have at neutral as you crest T8. 99% of the cars that lose it in the esses (from videos I have watched) seem to be from having steering input as you crest T8. T8 is deceiving since it really unloads the rear end.

T10-->Again, just clean up the braking and turn in a tick sooner.

T14-->Grab 2nd just before the right-hander down the roller coaster and then short shift to 3rd in between T14a and T15. I've tried both and the data shows that extra burst of speed from 2nd grabs you another few tenths.

T15-T16-->Don't grab 4th. Take 3rd to the top. You should be just about redline in 3rd as you hit your brake point for T16. This keeps you in the meat of the power for hogpen. You'll grab 4th on the exit of Hogpen.

By the way, very smooth with the hands. Great driving!

[FTS]

This turned out to be a great thread, very informative. So with the risk of being an a$$, as the contrarian I am, I'll add few of my notes with no offense intended to anyone.

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR

This is from last year 2.06's. Toyo RA1 and Pagid 29 CUP LSD.

How is the lock ups set up with the cup LSD?

...Please critique, I like free coaching ;-)

I'll give my 2 cents:

• T1: I don't think you are trailing the brakes enough and missed the apex on both of your fast laps. On the first lap, you also turned in too late IMHO. In my experience turning in early with very slight steering while trailing the brakes until the car attitude is right for throttle nets as much as 0.7 seconds just on the braking zone alone.
• T2: for some reason you short shift to 4th gear and probably lost 0.5 secs because of that. Stay on 3rd.
• T3: as others mentioned, you can turn in earlier and let it drift with speed with less steering.
• T6-6a: I'd stay off the curbs there. Our friend hit the bridge during Zone 2 event, because he put the left rear on dirt on 6a and lost the control. Going over the curbs really does not add to speed or take less time that has any significance.
• UpHill eSess: I used to take your line, albeit much slower. Although it is counter intuitive, adding some curves to your line while avoiding all the curbs makes the car feel more settled and much more confidence inspiring. Just wait a split sec more before your turn ins. Just like Dell describes, it works much better.
• I was criticized for taking Oak Tree similar to you because I was abusing the tires and sliding the car too much for that turn. I was told by a coach to brake later after T10 and trail the brakes until the attitude of the car at Oak Tree is right and then get on gas hard. Something for you think about and to work on for me
• We can all brake later into T14 as Dell mentions.

Dell, I hope you don't mind if I disagree with you on couple of things

Originally Posted by Dell

T1-->Get tighter. All the grip is on the inside line. Also, grab second and short shift to third just after track out heading to T2. Staying in third gives back several tenths.

I've had this discussion so many times, I lost count, and it applies to several other places as a general practice for me. Your technique actually penalizes you more than providing gains. Shifting down/up is at least a 0.4-0.5 sec activity, in which you are off the gas and actually decelerating. The LongG generated in second gear is about 0.4-0.45 vs 3rd gear of about 0.35. Lifting off throttle generates a negative LongG of about 0.14 to 0.18 at that speed. So, shifting from 2nd to 3rd actually nets you a loss of about 0.1 to 0.2 secs in that corner. It feels faster, but I haven't seen any data that shows gains.

T4-->Grab 2nd and then short shirt to 3rd on the way to T5. This will grab another few tenths.

Same point as T1 for me. Although with the GT3 having 8500 rpm it is possible to ride 2nd gear all the way past T6; however, you are adding one more shift than necessary IMHO. Taking T4 with 3rd, you can ride the throttle all the way to the bridge straight. And since you have to short shift from 2nd to 3rd in your technique, lifting off throttle turning into T5, you are not able to take full advantage of the torque that comes only at full throttle, so no gain from 2nd gear, but actually loss of few tenths.

T14-->Grab 2nd just before the right-hander down the roller coaster and then short shift to 3rd in between T14a and T15. I've tried both and the data shows that extra burst of speed from 2nd grabs you another few tenths.

I don't think you can be on full throttle into T15 on second gear, so no torque advantage, and you are short shifting, so the net is again a loss due to shifting activity. Staying on 3rd, you can be on full throttle, full torque available and don't lift until trailing the brakes into T16.

One of the most common mistakes we make I believe is go with what feels fast without knowing what is actually fast. I am not saying this because I am fast, clearly not as much as Dell or many others, but looking at data and painstakingly analyzing every single corner. I collected so many instances of data from VIR and Summit about this 2nd vs. 3rd vs. 4th gear stuff that, to me there is no argument. But I have been proven wrong many times before

darn it, where is the emoticon that hides behind a wall? Pete, we need that one buddy!

[jenk12m]

i'll have to remember all this for when i make it back to VIR, thanks Dell

[Dell]

Very welcome! By the way, don't you "technically" have a job today? Getting closer. Pulling for y'all!

[jenk12m]

dell, i just watched your vid. nice driving and i like the woohoos!!! haha

[Dell]

Just one of those moments when I felt like a kid all over again

[jenk12m]

i totally understand those moments...

i have a job but dont have a job. then i can go to my job but i cant do anything there or talk to anybody. its ridiculous!!