Keep Or Sell? 3RS/Spyder vs Cup

[Skypalace]

I just reread this entire thread after seeing the weekly digest, and thought I'd comment on the thoughts re Spec Miata.

I haven't driven a Spec Miata, but I was offered a chance to drive a 944 in the Thunderhill 25. I thought I was a pretty decent driver, but had only competitively raced reasonably powered 911's of various types, so the 944 would be easy, having less brakes and power and traction, it would be an exercise in driving the right line and not making mistakes that slow down minimum corner or exit speed.

After a few laps, I think I've got it figured out and I'm on a decent pace. I ask the crew what my times are like. I can't remember the exact details (it was 8 or 9 years ago), but I was about 3 seconds off the fast lap. So I start working harder, having to really start to work to get it and keep it where I want to be. Now I must be on pace, right? Nope, still over a second slow! Time to man up. So I'm now really having to manhandle the car, keeping it right at the limit under braking, mid-corner, and on exit, of every single corner, for every lap, to finally get on the pace, and finally get the fast race lap in the car. What I expected to be a fairly easy session was anything but.

I learned a big lesson though - a slower car is NOT always easier to drive, I found it no less physically and mentally challenging than the 996 Cup, at least to be fully on a competitive pace. Gained a lot of respect for 944 Cup and Spec Miata drivers, and had a lot of fun. Did I have as much fun as in a Cup? Heck no, I'm not crazy :-)

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Skypalace

I just reread this entire thread after seeing the weekly digest...

I am glad the digest are having an impact

I learned a big lesson though - a slower car is NOT always easier to drive, I found it no less physically and mentally challenging than the 996 Cup, at least to be fully on a competitive pace. Gained a lot of respect for 944 Cup and Spec Miata drivers, and had a lot of fun. Did I have as much fun as in a Cup? Heck no, I'm not crazy :-)

Interesting story. I always thought slower cars are easier to drive without much fun. The context is different of course, I can see how racing in spec series can be a lot of fun, slow or fast cars. But in DE environment, I find driving a slow car extremely frustrating. I am a competitive person, but only to a level. However, just driving around in my Cayman, before the GT3, was getting tiring and not much fun to the point that I was getting sour about DE'ing.

Nice input again Skypalace, thank you.

[Skypalace]

Originally Posted by FTS

I am glad the digest are having an impact


Interesting story. I always thought slower cars are easier to drive without much fun. The context is different of course, I can see how racing in spec series can be a lot of fun, slow or fast cars. But in DE environment, I find driving a slow car extremely frustrating. I am a competitive person, but only to a level. However, just driving around in my Cayman, before the GT3, was getting tiring and not much fun to the point that I was getting sour about DE'ing.

Nice input again Skypalace, thank you.

You're welcome!

I haven't done DE in years, I did one only after racing, but having to wait behind cars in corners made me crazy, after being able to pass whenever I was able to.

But I found it more and more frustrating doing DE's as I got faster (both driving and cars), as I spent more and more time held up behind other cars.

The challenge I had in the 944 was in the level of skill and concentration required to do a great lap. With a 'slow' car at a DE, as long as you're in an appropriate run group (ie. based on driver skill rather than car potential), you'd likely be able to do many clean laps laps practicing your craft, whereas in a faster car, you're much less likely to get fully clean laps.

What was getting frustrating about the Cayman? Was it being slow, or was it that you'd already done many DEs with it, so weren't learning or improving much any more, and thus the challenge and interest was going away, which came back once you moved to a different vehicle?

Whichever car it's in, have you thought about doing time trials, rather than just DE's, so that you've got something competitive to aim for (ie. improving your lap time and comparing it to others)? Now that most insurance companies have exclusions for DE events, it seems that one of the big reasons for not allowing stop watches etc. is gone. Of course the other (totally viable and significant) reason is to help reduce incidents from people driving past their abilities.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Skypalace

What was getting frustrating about the Cayman? Was it being slow, or was it that you'd already done many DEs with it, so weren't learning or improving much any more, and thus the challenge and interest was going away, which came back once you moved to a different vehicle?

Slowness was not the issue, I think the Cayman is quite fast actually at the track; however, the learning mostly stopped, the excitement of driving it was lost. I never had a 911, although I had driven two before couple of decades ago. Once I got the GT3, it has been fulfilling all of my needs on/off the track and the joy of driving came back for sure.

I owned front engine, front drive cars, front engine rear drivers, 4x4s, AWDs, and with the Cayman I had my first mid-engine car, it was time for the rear-engine magic

I love time trials. I come from a stage rallying and autox'ing background, so running against time vs. wheel-to-wheel is very attractive to me. I did couple of NASA TTs, but the level of competition is really high, so I need to be much better prepared

[bman]

Thanks for the Cup perspective! The 996 CUP does seem to be the best choice for anyone looking to make the switch to a real track car; cost, performance and thrill are hard to beat. I've had offers to drive both a 996 and 997 Cups
....but I am afraid to drive either simply because I know I will buy one.

I still have a Cayman and drove it at VIR a couple of months ago and had a blast. It did feel like slow motion at first but the fun factor was high. I plan on spending more time in the Cayman, ironically, to further my learning. I am fortunate to have both cars, so I might as well get the most out of them.

Moreover, in a DE enviroment, it can be more satisfying hustliing past other cars in Cayman.....in a GT2 everyone expects you to be fast and often think you should be going faster With the Cayman, people stop by and say "where you driving this?" With the GT2 they only ask "what's your top speed on the straight?" I know......It's sad and lonely driving at GT2

[Skypalace]

LOL. It's not just at DE. From non-racers that stop by my paddock to look at my car, by far the #1 question I get is "how fast will it go". #2 is "do you have turbos" (usually very surprised when I say no), and #3 is "do you have nitrous".

People don't seem to get the whole car class thing, they see a 'fancy racecar' and assume you're allowed to do anything you want to do (it's a racecar, right?), and why would you NOT put turbos and nitrous on a racecar?

To be frank, I couldn't imagine bringing a Cup to a DE. I did DE's and instructed for many years before going racing. I did one DE about 2 years after I started racing, and it made me crazy having to hold up all the time and wait for pointbys, in the advanced/instructor group. And that was with a car 13 seconds a lap slower than my 997 Cup at the same track. That was one of the big reasons I went racing in the first place, and it totally reaffirmed it. Haven't done a DE since, I think that was 9 years ago.